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"Marshall's Soulful Branding" — Radim Malinic, Designer And Author

Radim Malinic (00:00): Hello, I'm Radim Malinic. I'm a designer and author and this is my love letter to Marshall.

Sam Thorogood (00:18): Your brand plus an emotional connection with your audience equals success. This podcast explores that middle part. I'm Sam, a brand designer and your host. In each episode, I invite a guest to pick their favourite brand and unpack why it means so much. As they share, we learn what makes audiences tick. Not with strategy or theory, but through that undeniable proof of successful branding: emotion.

Radim Malinic (00:59): I encountered Marshall at potentially the most poignant time of my life, when I was a teenager and I was pretty much an early teenager and I discovered the world of rock and metal and death metal and heavy metal and... Pretty much anything with guitars that goes big and strong. And I remember going to gigs from quite a young age. And my first gig I've ever seen was Motörhead, which I'm so happy that I can say that. It was Motörhead and Lemmy and the other guy, whatever, I can't remember which guitarist was playing at that time. I remember stepping into this sports arena where they were playing. They were they were playing my home town in Czech Republic. Somehow. I mean there was like an arena for 5 or 6,000 people and they were, they just sold it out. So this is like sort of early 90s. And I remember the wall of Marshall speakers. I'm like, what is that? And why do you need that many? And what's going on? And that was the beginning of my sort of... Partial beginning of my musical, sort of, I wouldn't call it career, but my musical explorations, because I got absolutely mesmerised by, you know, heavy music with everything that came within the tribalism, the visual side, you know, from, you know. Grown men embroidering logos today and denim jackets. You know, it was just. It was amazing. Like how? We now try to convince people to sort of, you know, to buy into our brands. We invent brands, we invent brand stories, whereas you know you had, you know, some five guys, five dudes from you know, Tampa, Florida, making, forming a band releasing the records and then you have millions of people around the world embroidering their logo into their jackets and buying their t-shirts and albums and following the gigs because... That's brand equity, that's brand following and that's kind of like it's a first-hand experience. Because you know if you want someone to buy into your startup these days, you know you've kind of really have to push the message and write articles and that kind of stuff. Whereas this was first-hand, you know, speaking from one soul to another. So that was my first encounter with Marshall. And then somehow, you know, going to local gigs. People keep cropping up on stage with Marshall, and it's such iconic design of the amp. You know, the head amp and the speaker cabinet that you can't miss it, like it's... It's so well branded that it stands there proud like another member of the band.

Sam Thorogood (03:39): Hmm. And were you a bassist in bands at this, at this point in time, or was that later?

Radim Malinic (03:45): I was beginning to be a bassist in bands. Yeah, I was. I remember from a band when I was 13 or 14, I mean. I think this is a loose term, band, and loose term for a bassist because it was all about noise. You know you can make quite a little angry noise. Uh, make sound like, you know, some form of music and I somehow... I'm trying to remember like how I was able to actually buy what I believe was a knock-off head and the speaker cabinet with some help from like you know, part-time sort of summer jobs and that kind of stuff. And I remember having that and I was just like so amazed. How it sounded, like it was warm because it's got, you know, these analogue lamps in the back of the back of the head. So yeah, I was, I was forming a band. Few of my friends played the first gig when I was 15 and it kind of snowballed from there because I was kind of ambitious with my my first band. We had screen printed t-shirts with our sort of illegible logo and already made a sound and look like look and sound different, even though we were absolute garbage. And but you got to go from that visual aesthetic. There's, I mean, you've got so many other prominent sort of music instrument brands and all you have to do is just to have a kind of just a white logo on a black t-shirt and you kind of started having a brand following pretty much straight from there too. So yeah, music was integral part of my life actively to about about 16, 17, 18, but then I went through that. I think from about age of 16 I was a DJ as well, which was something that gave me even a bigger pleasure of discovering more and more sort of wider genres of music. Because with my sort of career path, I'm very nonlinear. I'm very much an explorer of everything that looks, sounds and tastes good. So that was my story.

Sam Thorogood (05:47): And tell me, was Marshall a big part of your kind of journey to move to the UK? Because I know you moved to the UK at the turn of the millennium.

Radim Malinic (05:57): I have to be honest, I kind of a parted with Marshall for a short while because... One of the reasons why I moved to the UK was more of electronic scenes of like labels like Ninja Tune and Metalheadz and Moving Shadow, that kind of stuff. So I was very much through my DJ pursuits. Was it discovering other forms of, you know, music? They were slightly sort of away from that beautiful guitar sound, but that still didn't mean that... You know, I'm kind of giving up on that. So Marshall wasn't fully instrumental in that part, but it was part of the heritage, like, OK, I moved to the UK because of the music scene like first and foremost there was music. I wanted to be closer to the language and to the music and to go to and to be able to go to gigs pretty much every night of the week and weekends, you know, and go to club nights and that kind of stuff. And yeah, it was always nice to see, you know, the proper tech coming up. It was also nice to be actually able to go to a guitar store and, you know, pretend that you're going to buy a lot of expensive gear so they can let you play in that little sort of studio room for hours and hours. And I'm guilty of doing it very often.

Sam Thorogood (07:13): You have to be careful with that and you have to see how long you can string it out before they realise you're not gonna buy anything.

Radim Malinic (07:18): And when they say, you know, buy this £2,000 guitar you're like, no, but I'm gonna buy a plectrum for £2. Yeah.

Sam Thorogood (07:26): What emotions does Marshall evoke for you when you just think about it? What, what comes to your heart?

Radim Malinic (07:32): I mean, it speaks to my soul. I mean, it's it's kind of... It's kind of those brands that you know didn't happen in a boardroom. And I love the history of like how. I think they were doing. How they were doing the franchise for Fender at first. And then they had a complaint from people like Pete Townsend saying, you know, the stuff is not loud enough. Can you make louder speakers and so they were making you know, 100W speakers and amplifiers and, and systems for, for people to actually get a bigger sound. And that's what they made them famous and I just love the fact that it's all about how to make, how the music makes you feel. Because I do loads of conversations about branding and creativity. And sometimes people say like so, what was it like being in a band, kind of thing. A bit like being in the design studio, apart from the fact that what you create with your friends or sometimes enemies and it's, it's a compromise, but you have to come up with an idea that people will associate with people who fall in love with and there's nothing sort of more magical than coming up with a new riff and it's got a groove and it makes you feel something. You play the groove all over and over and over again until you work out the next phase. And it's just like, so it's kind of beautiful, meditative and rewarding process that when you're supported... When you got, you know, decent gear. Yeah, I... I've got such fond memories of my head, Marshall head, and cabinet because it kind of was like... We used to say like, it moves your trousers. Like when you play, it moves your trousers. Like everything, sort of, it's... it's vibing, buzzing and yeah the emotion is just pure excitement. Absolutely pure excitement because it's yeah, unlike anything else in, in life.

Sam Thorogood (09:27): You mentioned that that wall of amps when you went to see that gig and just seeing that that white logo on the black background, what is Marshall doing visually that is so significant and so exciting for you?

Radim Malinic (09:41): I think it's a bit like a Coca-Cola thing, isn't it? Like they haven't really changed logos. I mean there was a, there was a few different iterations, but however they... And I've, I've been trying to find that history of that logo, but I've not been able to do so, to find to know where it came from, who did it. Because, you know, we've got like things like Nike sort of well documented, where the swoosh came from and you know how it wasn't exactly the one that they wanted at first. With Marshall, it's just the pure simplicity. Like when you think about the actual guitar equipment, it hasn't fundamentally changed. It just evolved to be a little bit better. So just like that Coca-Cola logo, it's just only evolved to be as iconic as it is now. And it's just beautiful because it's first hand drawn and the care was they used, used to be handmade. And it's like the reason why it came about is because it was an answer to a problem. It just kind of... I just, yeah. Visual identity is just so simple and I just love how the brand has evolved into what you mentioned like just the, you know, Bluetooth speakers and headphones and all sorts of collaborations that it has its own entity as its own sort of visual equity, but it's always true to the legacy which... Sometimes I don't know. Sometimes it feels like with the fast sort of moving consumerism and somebody called it yesterday the 'snackable era' that, you know, you need to sort of evolve and change and and adapt. And because you know, things are changing. But when you've got something in a way so simple, you know, like playing the guitar. Play the music. You know the Fender logo hasn't changed much. You know, Peavey, TAMA, you know, Zildjian, like you know, those brands haven't really changed their logos because they've got so much hard-core following that, you know. You don't have to do it. You're just gonna evolve and make things just better quality. You know, more, you know, robust and more in-line with current times. So I think what they've done, they've the whole simplicity of of the scheme is, is fantastic because it's not. It has not. Doesn't try to be a trendy sort of uncle, you know. It's just like, look, this is who we've been for the last. I don't know, 50. Some 50 odd years. And this is who we are going forward. And I think I just. I just love that because. There's no fussiness. You know, there's no fussiness because the gear. That's the token and you know, you almost need a minimal design system around it, which I think is fantastic.

Sam Thorogood (12:21): What have they done that's surprised you over the years?

Radim Malinic (12:24): I think I'm glad they haven't lost their way. I think what would surprise me, I think that what one thing that surprised me is that they tried to launch a phone, which is kind of like an average phone, but very interesting sort of recording gadget. That surprised me, but I think the main kind of... I think it's sort of more like a sort of the hindsight, like the surprise of the hindsight there. They haven't got it wrong. Like every turn the brand has taken has actually, was really good and you know actually before we started recording, I showed you one of the Bluetooth speakers I've got. And I've got a Marshall headphone in my ear, so I think, you know, buying a Marshall t-shirt is potentially the next thing I need to do, but it's... Yeah, I think they've stayed true because sometimes you get new brands, you know, lots, I mean, even Windows, we should try to do like MP3 players and headphones and that kind of thing. But when you come in as a music brand with such a sort of heritage of visual legacy, you know the product design and solid brand equity, like what they've created always felt on-brand. And that surprised me nicely, because sometimes, you know, you, some muppet CEO, turns up. You know, they used to work for, you know, Pepsi or whoever. And we're trying to change things and I think. Evolving without losing the authentic touch is a real skill, especially at this day and age, because you know you've seen a lot of brands try to, you know, rebrand hastily, then back paddling really fast. You know, like the, the, the example of Gap, for example, when they had that square. Turning, changing it for whatever, Helvetica, it was or something and then pretending like it never happened. And yeah, it's... I understand that we need to evolve, but the way that Marshall has done it in a way is just that there was more innovation and sort of elegance in evolution rather than also changes. And I think there's a lot of people who are very much thankful for them to keeping it that way because it it just looks beautiful.

Sam Thorogood (14:37): Just a quick one to ask you for a small favour that you can do right now. If you haven't already subscribed to this podcast, I invite you to hit subscribe or follow, whatever it looks like on your podcast player. And that just means that you'll see new episodes of Branding Love Letters as they come out. If you have already subscribed to this podcast, here's what you can do right now: I invite you to leave a rating, a star rating, or leave a review, a short review, and that just makes a huge difference to what I can do with this podcast: the stories that I can tell and the insights that we can gain into emotional connections to branding. Thank you very much. Back to the interview.

(15:23): I think it's really interesting, when you showed me those Bluetooth headphones on the Zoom before we started recording because it's just that black with the the white, you know, hand lettering on it. It kind of feels weirdly timeless, like a weird kind of sense of this could have existed 60 years ago. And I think that's, that's testament, isn't it, to the depth and the lineage of this brand that actually modern, modern as the equipment may be, it feels part of the story, it feels part of a, yeah, a lineage. I think it's the best word that I could like say would you would you echo that? Does that feel kind of true?

Radim Malinic (16:01): 100% yeah, I think I think you're working with a very limited number of, number of visual ingredients and that's what makes it really interesting, because even the casing on the on the AirPods. It's, it's kind of like a faux leather. I mean, it's plastic, but it's sort of, you know it mimics the original texture of the guitar heads. Sorry. Like the the amp heads and it's just the simple stuff. You know, they they don't have to invent stuff, you know that it's it's come from a place with you know that the started with the soul and heart and you just reduce those things and apply them to modern casing and modern, and modern product design. Even their, even their Bluetooth speakers, you know they they pretty much mimic what the the regular amps look like and what they do and it's it's kind of, I mean, yeah, I think I I think maybe because of my sort of the teenage, from the teenage years link up, I think it makes me feel something you know it kind of takes me back and reminds me of good times. It obviously reminds me of some bad times. Cause no one's you know, adolescence is easy, but it's yeah, there is something so beautifully soulful about it. So yeah, I fully agree. Absolutely agree.

Sam Thorogood (17:16): Have there been any times where it's been more difficult to love Marshall?

Radim Malinic (17:21): No, I mean there was, there was never a controversy. I mean, I think when I look back at it, I mean and I told you, you know, sort of initial conversation. I kind of... I was a big fan of Marshall for a very long time and I know we get still sort of sidetracked like everybody else. You know, we... Our interest changes and our sort of consumption of, you know, brands and things change. So I kind of took a time out because I I didn't necessarily there was no sort of products that I needed at the time. Because I'm even though once upon a time I used to spend eight hours playing a guitar because I didn't exactly have a full-time job. And so I used to play more and I used to be more into music. Whereas now, I do other things and I mean I've got multiple businesses and I'm a dad and a couple of kids and all sorts of things to do. I kind of, of come back to the brand through, the products that fit into my lifestyle now and with Marshall, I don't remember kind of anything because I'm not sort of active user who would be sort of changing you know combos or my amplifiers on sort of five or six year basis. I'm sure there were some some products that potentially didn't work out for them, you know, and something you know didn't go well. I know there's some employees who left the brand and started a new brand called Blackstar. And there... I think it's called Blackstar. I think the logo is just something really basic and kind of just like. Why? Why? You know, you could... You could have done everything. And you did this. That means that, you know, potentially you didn't leave for the right reason. So yeah, I mean, we've got it. It's a it's a pure love. Between me and Marshall, because there was never really anything there, you were saying why? Why did you do that? So yeah, no, it's a beautiful story. Of what... What they've created. Because yeah, there's only been one way forward.

Sam Thorogood (19:17): And how would you describe them if someone had never heard of Marshall before? How would you kind of put it into just a few words to to capture something of kind of what you have experienced personally through them?

Radim Malinic (19:30): I think, I think they pride themselves on one word and that's 'loud'. Like it's literally, it's been designed as a solution to a problem which is like, you know, other stuff is not loud. We need something louder. So I think that is the first and most encompassing, encompassing word which is loud. But I find them to be elegant. It's a beautifully tactile piece of kit. It's, it's so full. The sound is warm and kind of transcending. It actually pushes you to another place as I was saying. To be making music with that behind me, obviously I never had a wall of Marshall and I used to play bass in the band, but I had a guitar as well. And you know, I sort of dabbled in all sorts of different bands. But even just that one big box and and and head on top of it, it just fills the room and makes you feel something. It makes you feel like you know you're a ready-made rock star, even though you might suck as much as possible and it's transcending. It's just like it kind of gives you a feeling that you can do whatever you want, you know that the world is your oyster. And yeah, it's, it's always fun like, because I think I have my made. I may have mentioned already, but like the, the wall of Marshall speakers. I think it's just sometimes just a beautiful sort of theatre staging because you don't need, you know, 900 or 1200W of guitar sound because that'd pretty much kill you. So it's always like some of the amps are switched on, but it's just that devotion when you think how musicians really associated with the brand and the product that they made it like a front and centre feature of the stages and you know wanted to be with it because I'm, I'm thinking about how much you know... You think of iconic musicians like Jimi Hendrix or Jimmy Page, Slash, Clapton. I mean Zach Wylde is one of my favourite guitarists. Then you got Angus Young from ACDC. I feel excited. Just even saying their names because that music comes from the soul and I know I've mentioned about soul many times. But there was a great quote by Duff McKagan from Guns N' Roses and in his memoir he said when the music's good, you wanna break something and it's kind of like, yeah, I mean, for that you just need a pure power and raw energy behind you and something that just makes it sound good. So how would have described them to anyone who hasn't had them? In all of these ways, but it's loud. It's connects with you. Ohh, you know. Yeah. Amazing.

Sam Thorogood (22:10): I love it. I love it. Well, Radim, I'd love to hear more about you. What you're up to at the moment and where people can connect with the various different things you're doing. Maybe some of the different books that you've released recently tell us where we can connect in with what you're, what you're doing.

Radim Malinic (22:24): Ohh thank you. So I'm an author. You can find me on Instagram @radim.malinic and radimmalinic.co.uk. You can find out more about my written work. Also I run a branding and creative studio and focus on visual storytelling at brandnu.co.uk. But I try to kind of transcend everything that I've learned from the world of music into a creative world, because as I mentioned, like try to sort of a creative problem sometimes, like being in a band and you got egos, ambitions, insecurities, anxieties. Mix them together so this is one I've recently started something that I call the '21st century design designer toolkit', which is books on how we can overcome the said elements, you know, anxiety and burnout, all of that stuff that comes with creative careers these days. And I've got a book called Creativity For Sale, which is about how to launch a creative service business and I've got a book recently released at the same time, which is called Mindful Creative, which is how to create optimal conditions for creativity and navigate, navigate the highs and lows that come with it. And yeah, these books are very much connecting because... In a way, the way they're designed and the titles are the titles of the chapters are named, is actually inspired by music, you know, because when I was in in my bands, no one wanted to write lyrics. No one wanted to do anything visual. So I was the guy who kind of like, OK, I'll make the posters for the for the gigs, I'll make the CD covers. And you know, I'll name the songs and we had reasons why my chapters are, for example, just one word is because, A, it's easy to fit it on the page, but also inspired by track names.

Sam Thorogood (24:15): Well, I love it and I... What I really appreciate about you, Radim, is that you transcend industries and art forms and you're a designer. You're an author, you're a creative director, you're a podcaster. It's like creativity. You know, you've talked about your musical love for music as well. That's kind of clearly part of it. And yeah, I just really appreciate that you are someone who is saying that actually, creativity doesn't stay in one lane. Creativity is is out there and it crosses these disciplines and it's just yeah, it's really, really beautiful to see. So thanks for what you're doing. Keep doing it.

Radim Malinic (24:50): Thank you, Sam. I think, I think there's a reminder that... I think there's a reminder that being linear can work in one trajectory always nice to show my talks like a sort of one lane road versus spaghetti junction and it's like, I mean it's just not, not everything's for everyone. When you look at the adaptability and that curiosity, you know it, it goes back to the story of this brand and it goes to what we can do because sometimes people say, well, if I didn't pursue my you know, my side ideas like my, my side hustles. Whatever is another side project I would have been potentially further on some on other career and I would have potentially better with what I do right now, but maybe I got distracted. Whereas I see everything as an amazing way to actually add to your talent and to your toolkit and to your skill set, because that's where the magic happens. That's where interesting things happen, and it's, yeah, it's something that doesn't produce regrets. That's because we really just trying to sort of change the past whereas we learn from everything that we do, you know and and we can add to our, you know future or and just sort of inform our future. And I think that's that's the best part of it, so.

Sam Thorogood (26:04): Love it. Well, finally I would love to hear this love letter that you have written to to Marshall.

Radim Malinic (26:10): Dear Marshall, thank you for being in my life. You've been one of the loves of my life and always will be. I'm grateful for all the loud memories, for all the drunken memories, for all the places that I've been. Thanks to you, meeting people that I never thought I would meet, forging friendships I'd never forge and giving me a reason to have something to talk about to strangers all around the world. Because if there's one thing that can always find you friends anywhere you are in the world, it's to talk about music, and it's usually the one that, you know, is heavy and loud, angry, soulful. And it's all been made possible partially because of you. So keep doing what you're doing, it's been incredible. And I hope to love you for many more years.

Sam Thorogood (27:01): Well, Radim, thank you very, very much for letting us hear your branding love letter.

Radim Malinic (27:05): Thank you.

Sam Thorogood (27:07): Thanks for listening to Branding Love Letters with me, Sam Thorogood. I'm a brand designer for startups, creators, charities, eco projects and church plants. I'm on a mission: equip these pioneering brands to bring others onto their journeys. If you're interested, you can discover more at www.pilgrimage.design. Oh, and big thank you to Thomas Thorogood for the music. Take it away, Tommy Boy.